March 19, 2004  
Volume 97, Issue 89  

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Ivey doesn’t work? Whatever

Re: “... and we work harder, too,” Mar. 16, 2004

To the Editor:
What is so “gross and grand” about mistaking Ivey students for engineers? Why is everyone being so childish about the ring issue? As someone who has invested five years in both programs, I’m embarrassed by the quality of arguments being generated about an issue which, in my opinion, has been resolved swiftly and fairly by both faculties.

To insinuate that engineers put more effort into their degrees than Ivey students, or anyone else on campus for that matter, is incredibly ignorant. I’m sure you can find several people in every faculty on campus who have put in just as much or more effort than you over their academic careers. Also, please refrain from making arguments based on tired old stereotypes such as “Ivey students love money.” It’s the equivalent of “artsies” saying engineers will never have a chance with the ladies.

I believe you’ve also misinterpreted the true meaning of the Iron Ring. The Iron Ring is not intended to provide recognition to the individual wearing it, but rather to serve as a personal reminder of the engineer’s duty to uphold public safety at all times. If both faculties are working so hard to protect the reputation of their respective professions, I believe treating this issue with more dignified arguments and constructive dialogue would be a good way to start.

Matt Phinney
Concurrent HBA/Mechanical Engineering V

To the Editor:
To my learned friends that said “... Ivey students may be mistaken for people who have put work into their degrees,” you should ask some of your colleagues enrolled in the HBA/BESc program how much work the Ivey program really entails before making such uneducated comments.

I myself come from a biology background and have been overwhelmed with how much work is actually involved with the business program. I have done more work in this program than in my entire science education.

Although I am not big on the “precious,” I do not think it is right to discredit ANY learning institution or undervalue the capabilities of students from other programs.

Neeraj Khanna
HBA I /Biology III

To the Editor:
Thanks for those kind words, Andrew and Justin. We will remember them when you come looking for a job.

Matthew Burbridge
Evan Meister

To the Editor:
It is understandable why engineers might feel threatened by the thought of Ivey rings resembling the Iron Rings. What is puzzling, however, is the need for engineers like Andrew Knox and Justin Treitz to bash Ivey. Such attempts to elevate the engineering degree and diminish the HBA degree are futile. All they have accomplished with their offensive attitude is give the rest of Western a derogatory image of the engineering faculty. But then I suppose other engineers at Western are not stereotypically pompous and ignorant.

As engineers, they have no idea what kind of education Ivey students receive. I suppose Knox and Treitz can impose their demeaning, stereotypical and misleading opinions based on misconceptions rather than fact. The Iron Ring represents responsibility and “a high standard of professional conduct.” I find it ironic the students who are going to receive these rings upon graduation showed contrary behaviour in their letter.

In the end, we shouldn’t care what faculty students are in. We are all a part of Western and will be representing this great university in society. I just hope the rest of the students Western churns out will be more open-minded, less ignorant and have some common sense. By the way, to Knox and Treitz, you both have obviously shown you can’t learn such character traits in a textbook or classroom despite the countless hours you’ve spent studying as engineers.

Alan Liu
H. Economics II. AEO.

To the Editor:
Andrew Knox and Justin Treitz argue that “As engineers... we don’t want to be affiliated with Ivey in any way,” and that “Ivey may demand its own certain brand of effort, the burden on Ivey students can in no way be compared to the Herculean tasks that are required of engineers.”

Unlike the authors of the letter, I am unwilling to speak of which I know little. I have not undergone the rigours of the undergraduate engineering program at Western. Therefore, I believe comments about the relative workload of these programs coming from someone like myself are weak and baseless.

It must be said that the faculties of business and engineering, as well as the university, actively promote the concurrent engineering and business degree, rightly pointing out that skills developed in both of these disciplines are highly valuable, post-graduation. Does this not mean that at the very minimum, some of your engineering colleagues enjoy an affiliation with us at Ivey? The concurrent students I know are proud of their association with both faculties.

With all due respect, there is no reason for such an attack. I will not be wearing my pinky ring, partly because I believe it is a rip-off of an engineering tradition, but also partly because of some of the same reasons the authors proclaim. I don’t want to be mistaken for an engineering student any more than you do a business one. It is true engineers should be proud of their accomplishments, but so should any students approaching the end of their undergraduate degree. I salute my fellow graduation candidates of 2004, and may you enjoy success in the future regardless of discipline.

Scott Galbraith
HBA Candidate 2004

Mock Paris, not Jesus

Re: “Christians cross with The Gazette,” Mar. 16, 2004

To the Editor:
Although I am not a Christian myself, I have noticed that The Gazette displays some bias by poking fun at Christians and their faith. While the comments made tend to be quite funny, as tends to be the norm for your paper, I can easily sense how they could be offensive to some people.

I believe a large portion of the student population would lose respect for your paper if you put down other groups in our society, such as the mentally handicapped, homosexuals or individuals of a particular ethnic background, so it seems rather unfair that Christians are treated as fair game.
Perhaps, in the spirit of equality and acceptance, it would be best to keep the barbs directed at groups that EVERYBODY dislikes, such as politicians, egocentric celebrities and people who refuse to move to the back of the bus.

Bryan Rade
Biology III

The Gazette is sold in Nantucket

Re: “Note to parents: this ain’t the fuckin’ Ritz,” Mar. 16, 2004

To the Editor:
I am becoming intrigued by what appears to be the juvenile mentality of your staff. The Gazette — much like Western’s student accommodations not being the Ritz — is not the New York Post, The Globe and Mail or the British Daily Telegraph. Regardless, The Gazette is written for students of Western by fellow students, and I find it troubling how there is an increase in the usage of profane language in many articles.

The article “Note to parents... ” is a disgrace, not for its content but for its headline. Are you unable to create another title without the use of foul language? Or is the saying: “Profanity shows a lack of vocabulary” actually true? Are you in fact one of many who are compelled by their newfound freedom away from Mommy and Daddy that you must now discard any sense of polite language? Or are you one of the many who would fail the possible literacy tests which may/should be endorsed for students?

Although society’s morals appear to be on a decline, we are here to elevate our education rather than see its demise.

Jason Smith
Philosophy II

CHRW more than music

Re: “Students, not community,” Mar. 16, 2004

To the Editor:
I was disappointed to see your editorial on CHRW 94.9 FM, mostly because it was terribly uninformed, but also because it was published during the Cultural Caravan week that is happening on campus. CHRW has an incredibly broad and diverse spectrum of programming, meaning it caters to students of all musical tastes and cultural backgrounds.

What does the term “average student” mean to The Gazette? Just look at the University Community Centre atrium this week and you will see that our campus is home to students of many backgrounds. Does The Gazette mean to say that Chinese, Arabic, Polish, Hispanic, French, Italian, Portuguese, Greek and Native Canadian (and many other) students are not equal “stakeholders” in the radio station? Just because a native English speaker tunes into CHRW on a Saturday or Sunday and cannot understand the language being spoken on-air, does not mean the programming is irrelevant. Multicultural programming exists not only because of the London community, but because our own campus is culturally diverse.

It seems like The Gazette didn’t even listen to the station for more than an hour or two before writing the editorial, and even worse, there is little respect at the newspaper for cultural diversity. We all love indie rock music, but sometimes you’ve got to give the rest of the world a chance and try to expand your mind. After all, isn’t that what a university and campus-community radio, is for?

Basia Bulat
Scholar’s Electives II



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